First week of the fourth quarter - your responses have been wonderful! Let's start with a brief post, and your brief response to it. The Brain - bits and pieces from famous neurologists, scientists, and Bill Nye The Science Guy - remixed and mashed to a beat.
Watch it, and then think about the excerpt from Andrew Sullivan's political blog, The Dish that follows.
The question I want to pose is this: Do we have "free will", the ability to think for ourselves? Or does our brain make our decisions before we are consciously aware of making the decision?
"Researchers implanted electrodes in patients to track their neurons. They asked them to look at a clock and press a button, and then to tell them the exact time they decided to press the button. Daniela Schiller and David Carmel report:
[A]bout a quarter of these neurons began to change their activity before the time patients declared as the moment they felt the urge to press the button. ... So it turns out that there are neurons in your brain that know you are about to make a movement the better part of a second before you know it yourself. What does that mean?
It might be tempting to conclude that free will is an illusion.
Some have believed this since the days of (the scientist), who recorded EEG (brain waves)and found it contained a specific pattern that predicted his subjects movements before they felt the conscious will to act. EEG measures electrical activity on the surface of the head, combining information from billions of neurons; Fried and his colleagues have gone further, by finding individual neurons that do this. But before reaching any sweeping conclusions, it is important to remember that this study looked at a very rudimentary kind of action. The decision to move a finger hardly ranks as the same kind of free will we exercise when we make moral choices or major life decisions."
So - what do you think? Is free will (the ability to make up our own minds and decide for ourselves) an illusion? Or is it real? Do we consciously decide to go to the doctors, or have that ice cream cone on a hot summer's day?
Or do our neurons fire up the decision before we're even aware of asking ourselves the question?
And if you really want to take it a step further - ponder the role of the epigenetic genome on the idea of free will. (I really hope someone does that... :)
10 comments:
It's really hard to say whether or not we do actually have "free will". For instance if I could have made the decision of whether or not to come to school today without using my brain I would have chose not to. I would love to be at home still sleeping, but my brain knows that coming to school is the right thing to do.
I do think that sometimes our brain makes us react to things quicker then we really get a chance to think about them. Whether it's saying something to someone, or making a gesture. Sometimes we do things that are wrong, but I think we do them because we don't think about it long enough before our brains tell us to just do it.
I think that we are more controlled by our brains then maybe we suspect. We all know that our brains so control our body functions, and everything we see, hear, touch and smell. But maybe our brains are controlling us beyond that.
-Marley
Based on these findings, I think it is reasonable to say that free will is an illusion. It actually makes a lot of sense to me. For example, there could be neurons that send out signals that tell us to do something like move and there are neurons that notice that we are doing something, and that second set of neurons could be the thing that we call free will.
We can also consider what makes up our supposed free will: it's only cells! And what we think is free will and consciousness is simply the transfer of chemicals between these cells that gives us memory, decision making, etc.
The epigenetic genome and its relation to this is mind-boggling. The role I think it plays is it tells the neurons to activate certain parts of their DNA so that they make certain proteins and chemicals, which in turn give us thought.
But what I think it comes down to is the different neurons in our brains. Like I said, some neurons give us the ability to do things and the others simply observe ourselves doing these things and make us think that we made that decision ourselves.
You picked a good one this time, Mr. E. This is a really interesting topic with a good video to go with it. In your post you bring up the idea of whether or not we actually have free will or whether out subconscious decides for us. The idea that something in our minds make decisions before we even know it. I think this is a topic that's really hard to have a definitive answer for. Is it possible that we do have free will? But that we just have made the decision before we know it based on what we've done in the past? It would be really interesting to study the brain of someone who has never gotten accustomed to an everyday pattern in their lives. Everyone I know either goes to school or works 5 days a week, takes the same route everyday, has the same schedule everyday. Maybe someone who never had to live with everyday patterns would have a different way of thinking.
It's really hard for me to believe that we don't have free will. And it's hard form me to define free will. It's not like our subconscious is a separate being from who we are. Even if the decision is made in our minds before we fully consider it we are still making that decision with our our brains.
Neuroscience is such complicated topic that I don't really think that we will ever fully understand the capacity and functions of our own brains. At least I know I will never fully understand how my own brain works.
First of all, I’m not going to lie; I appreciated the song thing. The female scientist was my favorite. Though i did notice that out of a whole bunch of male scientists there was only one female. I did not appreciate that part.
So, maybe this is really off base but I don’t think of the brain and you yourself being separate. If you can’t live without the brain and the brain cannot survive without you then in my mind it stands to reason that they don't make decisions separately. If we use our brains to think then how is it possible for us to make a decision without it. How is it possible for decisions to be made separately? I think that decisions are made with the brain but the brain is part of us. There isn't a separation. Its two pieces that make up one. The brain cannot make decisions without the body (lack of oxygen perhaps) and the body cannot make decisions without the brain (the lack of thinking skills perhaps).
The neurons of course are all gung-ho ready to go because they are already processing the information. If we are told to push the button then the information has already gone to the brain. It knows we are going to push that button; so, to me it makes sense that the brain is ready to do so. It makes sense that its ready to push the button before we actually do because we have already prepared it to do so.
I just went through the other responses and i agree with Cole. I wholeheartedly believe in the idea of free will. Our whole lives are based on the idea that when we leave home we can do whatever we want. That we can make our own decisions. Choose to do what we want and without the idea that we can choose our lives: what is left for us to believe in?
Then again, i could be way off I'm not a neurologist and i haven't studied the brain. But those are my opinions on the subject.
Sydney
well, the video was lovely lets start with that, but on the subject of the brain, and free will, and if we really have it, id have to say that i don't really want to know this. and everyone knows the brain is what runs us. but to ask the question if we have free will? or if we r just a bunch of bodies stuck on a brains auto function, i'm sorry but i don't like the idea of trying to figure this out, i love the fact of being to make all of my own decisions and have my own personal opinion on everything, but to think that the brain already has these things that makes our lives ours planned out, makes me feel like im not this amazing form of life we call humans< but just a robot on the planet earth
Well, to start off, we need our brain to make basic, everyday movements. Like the example the blog used, just lifting a finger. Our brain attaches to specific nerves and sends our brain a message that tells us that we need to do something, like BREATHE, for instance. Our brain controls our thoughts and movements, yes. But how can we say we don't have free will? Let's explore my life.
Let's take yesterday for example. I woke up around 9:30am. I woke up around 8am before, but I chose to go back to sleep because I was tired from the night before. I chose to go back to bed because my body was tired and my brain TOLD it that I was tired. Obviously I have no scientific research, nor does anyone else, to say that my brain already knew that I would choose to sleep in. So I slept in until 9:30am when Kara called me. I seriously thought about not calling her back because I wanted to sleep. There. In that case, I chose to do something that I did not want to do because I was very sleepy. But I did it anyway. Does my brain still know that I was going to call, and then not, and then choose to call? Sounds highly unlikely but maybe. The real reason I chose to call was because I wanted to go out to breakfast with Kara, Krystyna and Oriana. So in order for my brain to decide before I did to pick up the phone, it would have also had to know that I was going out to breakfast........ I don't think it would know that. So I went out to breakfast and had a nice time because I chose to.
To me, we just need to believe that we do have free will. If we believe we don't, we'll start blaming our brain for the decisions we make and THAT would just get very ugly. But then again, some people do. We blame mental illness all the time for the ugliness and hatred in our world. Take the Arizona shooting for instance. Scientists and the media blamed the mental state of Jared Loughner for the shooting. I think, in a way, this makes the world feel a little better. Knowing that Loughner had a serious drug backround and was in a terrible mental state, research and the media let the people know that something was seriously wrong with this man. So we sometimes feel protected when we blame the brain, but other times, we want to be responsible for the good decisions we make.
Hmm...
-Molly
Free Will. Well, I think that the logical place to start would be to define what free will is. In my opinion, free will is the ability to think for yourself. Obviously, we have little or no control over our body’s inner workings, some people can learn to control certain bodily functions, such as heart rate and respiration, or even body temperature. However, what actually happens in our body, apparently, is mostly, if not entirely, controlled by genetics and epigenetics.
But I don’t really think that has anything to do with what free will is. Some psychologists, I’m thinking of B.F. Skinner, believe that every decision that we make is based on our history of rewards and punishments. That we only do what we do because of what the outcome will be, consciously, we have no say in what decisions we will make, every decision is made for us by the lower brain. I, respectfully, disagree. People have the ability to choose to do things that have absolutely no benefit for themselves. Soldiers choose to throw themselves on grenades to save their units, parents raise children with no expectation of recompense, et cetera, et cetera. So, yes, people have free will. I personally think that it is one of the few things that can never be taken away from a person. It can be mutilated, broken down, come close to dying, but never taken away, free will is that little spark that makes us human.
The brain. It is something that has confused, taught and fathomed scientists and people for hundreds of years. The brain is constantly working when we are doing everyday activities, making important decisions and growing as people. So the question that has been raised is: are we actually making the decisions or is our brain doing this without us even knowing?
This is hard for me to answer. In Psychology last year we learned that our brains are constantly making decisions for us that we do not even take time to think about. Let’s take typing for example. If by accident I was typing too fast and spelled the word, “and” like this: “adn", before the computer can correct it, I have already hit the backspace and fixed it. It was almost as if my brain was taking over and I was just following along. I didn’t think about it. I just did it.
With little everyday things such as that, I do believe that our brain is constantly making decisions for us. It is almost as if we are a puppet and our brain is pulling the strings. This is almost scary to think about, but without our brains making these everyday decisions, I do not think we would be able to function as humans.
But thinking about more intricate decisions such as speaking, moving, and making important decisions, it becomes a little more confusing when saying how our brain works. Obviously if a person hurts themselves, the brain is programmed to react. For example, I just hit my funny bone a second ago and my arm immediately touched the spot that was hurting and I let out an, “Oww!” I didn’t think: “You just hit your bone. Touch your bone. Now let out a phrase that shows how you feel.” My brain automatically went through this process with me not even realizing it. The brain is constantly doing this, probably millions of times a day.
But making important decisions is different. When one has to make an important decision, they usually do not just make it and have the brain react like it did when I hit my elbow. If there is an extremely important decision to be made, one spends time to think about it, weighing out the pros and cons.
I do not believe the brain is completely controlling humans without our thoughts getting in the way. I do believe that the majority of the time it is, but there are some instances where I think our thoughts override the brain’s desired actions. This is getting confusing… what I mean is let’s say a friend came up to me and started yelling at me for no reason. My immediate response might be to yell back, but if I take a second to think about what is going on, then I will probably calmly ask what is going on.
Where this gets confusing is when asking: is the brain telling me to think about it and calm down? This is the main jist of the question that Mr. Engler raises, and it is hard to answer. I am writing that through our thought process we can do something different than the immediate response, but is the brain controlling that? I mean obviously our thoughts are located in the brain so I think yes, the brain is controlling it, but instead of little everyday jobs our brains do, we are aware what is happening. These are our thoughts.
…. I AM going to get that song tonight…just sayin’.
I honestly am not sure about this notion of free will. We love to believe that we can over ride our thoughts or how our bodies will respond or the choices we make, but we don't always. Why is this? That is what is truly perplexing to ponder. Why is it that we can't always override what we want/do i do?
Speaking of all these things, In this weeks Time mag. the cover story touched on superhuman intellg. This was an a very scary story to read. It explained how in year 2045 computers will surpass ALL human brain power combine...
Imagine what that will do?
What free will we claim to have now, will shortly mean next to nothing if we are taken over by computers. As impossible as it sounds its a scary possiblity. With new phones and I pads and so many other things advancing so fast.. Its only amatter of time until humans are going to be subject to this advancement.
Amelia
I think we have free will in many situations. But in other situations we do not.
When it comes to our reflexes we can not really decide when we are going to blink, or flinch when something is about to hit us. But we can decide weather to try to catch whatever is being thrown at us, move out of the way, or block it.
I think free will definatley exists and is not an illusion. We decide for ourselves when we want to help someone out, when we want to go shopping, read a book, who we want to talk to and what we want to do. It would be hard to prove that we are just robots controlled by our brain, because then what is controlling the brain?
-Sarah
Post a Comment